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Moving on to a new idea to disscuss I offer “The Prime Mover”


Our Present position, then, is this: We have argued that there always was motion and always will be motion throughout all time, and we have explained what is the first principle of this eternal motion: we have explained further which is the primary motion and which is the only motion that can be eternal: and we have pronounced the first movement [or “Prime Mover”] to be unmoved.  -Aristotle, Physics, Book VIII, chapter 9


What Aristotle is ultimently saying is that every change or motion traces back to one uncaused, cause or one unmoved, Mover.  An illustration: I am writing this article because I want to get people thinking, including myself?  This in turn is caused by my annoynace of apathy in our generation, not saying that this is unique to our generation.  This is caused becasue of the reality of the apathy in parts of our generation.  This is because…   “This final cause, this perfection, is one and the same with the Prime Mover, whose perfection is expressed by the fact that it neither changes nor moves…Aristotle also had a metaphyscial view of the PM: Being perfect, it must be the same as “thought” (philosophy).  Finally, Aristotle took the PM theologically.  As the source of animation, the PM must itself be animate; as thought, it must constantly think.  If it thought about the shifting, imperfect things of this world, its thoughts, following their objects, would also be chanble and imperfect.  But as the PM is perfetion itslef, this is impossible.  Therefor the PM is thought that thinks about itslef, perfection that considers its own perfection.  What else could this be but God?”- Michael Macrone


     Did the existance of God just become proven logically useing pagon philosophy?  Though the rythem is convincing, such that it for time convinced St. Thomas Aquanis as proof of God, it relies on assumption.  The most resaonable of reason and logic usually end in God but still relies on assumptions.  The truth is despite Aristotle’s words if you believe in God he must still be taken by faith, at least for now. My expeiances have led me to know God, and that itself is proof for me. But is there a way to prove God, not that I have yet found.  Peace.


 


P.S. Pro- Life, Pro Choice?  Must reads. http://tpe.ag.org/Articles2006/4785_Vantage.cfm, http://tpe.ag.org/2006PDFs/4785_RoevWade.pdf,


http://tpe.ag.org/2006PDFs/4785_Healing.pdf

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About minuiperiannath

Name: Spencer Wentland College: North Central University Year: Senior Major:Intercultural Studies My story of meeting Jesus in short: Not many weeks after I was born my parents baptized me into the Christian faith at First English Lutheran Church in my hometown, Appleton, WI. There they renewed their promises to renounce the devil and his ways, the world and evil and raise me the same way teaching me to love and fear the Lord, the Lord's Prayer, the Ten Commandments, the Creeds and when of reading age to put the Holy Bible in my hands and all the while, with the church community, instruct me in the Christian faith. My parents weren't perfect but they did fulfill the vows they made at my baptism. I had my own more personal experience with the Lord around the age of seven when I followed Jesus out of the Gospels to a "quiet, lonely place" in my backyard with the hope to do whatever Jesus did there. Without realizing it or ever being taught how to "receive Jesus into your heart" it happened quite like that even seeing a mental vision of Jesus and knowing I need to welcome him into my heart and let him sit on the throne of my life. I've never been the same since then and the Lord has kept his promise to be with me "always." I confirmed what my parents chose for me in a public confession of faith and the ritual of believer's baptism at a local swimming school where the Assemblies of God church my mom attends used to do their baptisms. I've never regretted a life with Jesus; life has always been richer, deeper and fuller because of it. About Me: Ha that's a funny question, and a popular one today. Well, if you really want to know "all about me" you will have to meet me. For starters I am hard to put in simple categories and often find myself tumbling between labels; i.e. introverted and extroverted, strong and weak, intuitive yet a rationalist, introspective and social, unique and individual yet needing people and empathetic. I belong to and am part of the Way and that is probably the most defining important part of my being. (Acts 24:14) As a God lover in the Way of Jesus Christ I long to see and embrace all things and people in his love for his glory. Creative people and places energize me. I enjoy and appreciate art and artists and like to contribute and collaborate in making my own art at times. I need my own time and spend a lot of time in contemplation- this is where I get recharged and new vision and vitality for life. A con of my personality is my ill attempts to understand everything about everything. At the same time I also get energy from others and love to be sociable. I make matrix like connections in my mind and although my comments often are perceived as random too me they are very connected to something. To me connection and harmony are very important and I believe the truth brings that out. The last few years have been filled with learning, studying and meeting wonderful people. Copenhagen, Escanaba, Nagasaki, and now back to Minneapolis! So excited to learn, grow and finish my last year at university! Call: I feel strongly called by the Lord to work and give myself as missionary of love to the Japanese people. As the Lord leads I hope to take a missionary assignment through ELCA Global Mission teaching English and serving in congregational mission and leadership in Japan. Eventually I would like to serve as an apostolic worker planting boiler rooms (missional/monastic communities) around the Japanese archipelago with a bunch of other Jesus lovers in international, incarnational bands of friends. About this blog: This blog is for my Church Administration and Personal Finance class. I'm looking forward to interesting and practical conversation and learning that will help develop my leadership and organizational skills for however and whatever takes shape out of the Lord's call.

11 responses »

  1. hmmmm well i dont blive in god..just to start this off…mabby becues i didn’t go to churh that mite be the reson, I dont blive in him/her but i dont think thats the cases.i think its more on the lines of i did ones blive in him/her i pary to god every day. to help me…has god turnd a deff ear to my parys i dont know i cant say….. so i guss i chues not to blive in him and niver will unless sicen proves me rong now..that is…… any who…to my view on aborshon…i think its more of the lines with the woman for its her choice not god nor man to tell her what to do with her boddy..even tho i dont suggest abourshon i still blive it the woman choice. and to my view on polotics if RowV.Wade is over turnd well then i think its giveing the govermnt a foot hold in to contuling are boddy like china dus saying how manny kids you can or can’t have..and for a nother off topic you must reed animl farm and 1984 more of  1984 i think are gloverment is truning in to that if it keep on the path it on..  

  2. The statement that God could be both Omnicient and Immutable, as stated when saying “This final cause, this perfection, is one and the same with the Prime Mover, whose perfection is expressed by the fact that it neither changes nor moves”, is actually a contradiction.  If God knows everything, then God must know what time it is, or more precisely what the state of the universe is at every given instant.  Because time is ever changing, then, God is would have to change with it in order to always know everything, but by doing this he is no longer immutable.  To say that anything knows something then in the next instant knows something different is to say that he has indeed changed.

  3. Viki,
    You have to understand that these people did live in Judeo-Christian society.  Christ hadn’t come yet and the religion of the Greeks was polytheistic.  Nothing there religion would teach them that there was a Prime Mover.  The fact that when they reasoned it out is amazing.  They were not trying to prove God they just happend to find the concept of him useing reason.  I agree though, faith IS enough.

  4. Its interesting that you say you felt God has left you a deaf ear.  David, he was a King in Israel who wrote most of the psalms in the Bible, struggled with the same thing.  He said, “Don’t turn a deaf ear when I call you, GOD.  If all I get from you is deafening silence,  I’d be better off in the Black Hole.”-Pslam 28:1  Later he goes wrenching out his problems with God.  Even yesterday I felt in my prayer, “why do I feel so far from You?.”  Later David goes on to say “Blessed be GOD- he heard me praying.” Psalm 28:6  Pherhaps the reality in it is not that God is deaf to us but that we are deaf to God.  Prayer is not just asking God for things but communication with God.  Communication is back and forth.  Maybe we don’t see the way God answers our prayers or why he doesn’t.  Maybe more focus should not be on us telling God but listening.  Either way when we approach God we must understand who we are approaching.  Understanding that Jesus is God and that his work on the cross allows us to have communion with God is essential for this communication to work.  Definentally something we can talk about more in person if you are interested.
    Secondly, I have read animal farm and familiar with the what George Orwell has been trying to tell people.  I also understand the evils of communisim.  I also feel that giving the of our rights over to the goverment is dangerous.  But I don’t see abortion as giving rights to anyone because abortion is not a right. However I do value above all the right to life, both of the born and unborn.  Unborn children have souls, they are life.  Abortino is the murder of innocent children.  Genocide has been ocurring in the United States of America for over thirty-two years.  I don’t see myself as anti-abortion or womens rights but Pro-life.  We all deserve our unalieanable rights as bestowed upon us by our creator LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”
    Peace.  Hope you are well soon.

  5. Tyler, Sorry about your head man, that looks gruseme.  If I see you I owe you two dollors.  On your comment, I think you are missing the point.  God authered time and operates above it.  He always was is and will be.  His existince is then, now and tommorow.  Since eternity He has always been, is, and will be in every point of “time” and above it.  Remmeber time is a very relative thing.

  6. Hmmmm sadly if it’s outlawed it will still happen ether way.. And thus we will go back to were women who are desperate enough to kill the fetus by any means ether by hand or by a hanger in back ally abortion places were women bleed to death…no that is wrong to me how can this be saving life when they are killing them self and the fetus…I rather have it were the woman can go to an abortion clinic were its cleen and safe and lest she will not die even though after then they surly go thru pane of the after math of abortion a child…. and a another why of thinking of it is what if you’re girl friend was rape or a best friend of yours shod they have a choes to aborit it. Would you keep the child to love, even though it represents there rape and that child will probly remind them of it every time they look at him or her….by all meens abourton shod not be ues as a bith contorl it shod be ues for dire needs to save your wife/loved one. or for a child thats not yours..

  7. Time is relative to anything, correct.  That just means that humans have invented things like the second and minute, ways of measuring it for efficient use.  Time itself actually never changes it is constant.  By saying that, “He has always been, is, and will be in every point of “time” and above it.” also brings in itself a contradiction.  Correct me if im wrong but what you are saying is that God knows every single thing that has ever happened, and he knows it all at once all the time. a very valid argument, because then God would not have any use for time, he would know all of time, all the time.  However, this is an incomplete measure of Gods knowledge.  If Gods knows everything about me, say when i was born, when i first walked, and when i die, he knows also the amount of time, or all the contingent events, and how far in between they are of each other.  But you are saying that he knows this information instantly, and always knows it.  Here is the dillema, he would not know where in “real time” I am in my life, meaning he wouldn’t know that i am typing these words right now.  he would know that i would type then and that i would get a glass of water in ten minutes, but he would not know exactly where the universe is in actual time.  It can be illustrated this way.  Let us say I wrote, produced, starred in, directed, and seen a million times.  Now this movie is being shown in a town on the other side of the world, and i am not there.  I would know more about the movie than any other person in that theatre, but one thing i would not know is what was actually going on on the screen at any given moment.  I would have to be there, and in order for me to be there, when someone asked me what was going on on the screen at 3:30, then at 3:35, my answers would be different.  God in order to know everything would have to not only know everything about the universe for all eternity, he would also have to know at what stage of realization those events are actually taking place right now.  If he did know everything then, he would have to change with every changing time. hence Omniscience and Immutability are not compatible.

  8. Tyler,
    Again I think you are missing the point.  God is all knowing, a concept we can’t even grasp.  He knowns what is going to happen yet is there while it happens and there when he knows it is going to happen.  He has always known, has always been aware/ is knowing, and always will know in everypoint in time for enternity backwords and forward.  Maybe not every aspect of God is immutable.  Maybe God does change.  I think church people attribute immutablity to God becasue the reality of it is so beyond human fathom. Many things about God are a mystery.  The Scriptures say “Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. ” 1 Corinthians 13:12  Maybe knowing about God really not as important as knowing God.  Maybe understanding he is there is only the prerequiste to a great dance we can expieance with God.  I ask you have you ever known God.  You never have answered my question, Why don’t you believe in God?

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